#21: Micro-Interview w/ Jake Golden
By Bilal Mohamed
Bilal Mohamed and Jake Golden, fresh off work on a rainy Wednesday night, opt for dinner at Dolan’s, an exquisite authentic Uyghur restaurant after their plans for a tennis game got washed away by the weather. Jake sports a royal blue A Cold Wall* hoodie paired with a black NY cap, while Bilal dons the opposite—a blank black mock turtle neck wool sweater and a royal blue beanie.
As they settle in, the waitress swings by to advise them to savor the Kawa Manta they ordered while it's piping hot. Taking her advice to heart, they eagerly dig in...
The Q&A below is only a small portion of the conversation that took place… Enjoy.
Have you ever been to China?
No, I have not. But I’ve talked to a lot of people in China because of my job (clothing designer). I’ve always wanted to go though.
Just based on talking to you, and seeing your work, you have a very particular philosophy in life. It is very different from other people of similar age in the creative field. How would you define your overarching philosophy - that navigator you use when it comes to how you move…
I know it’s such a buzzword, but what it comes down to is authenticity. The reason I say that, naturally is because of my family. I’m into music and art pretty heavily. My family comes from skateboarding and photography, and they’ve had a pretty resounding impact on my life. Not just on the surface level, but they put me onto a lot of books and authors like Allen Ginsberg, and Jack Kerouac, which my uncle was really into. Photographers like Larry Clark, Peter Beard, and Bill Burke. Specifically, Bill Burke and Peter Beard who were travel photographers. They took a lot of their photos in Vietnam, Africa, and stuff, and I think that definitely had an imprint on my personal tastes from an art standpoint, and how I articulate myself.
I always have a voice in the back of my head where I don’t want to sound pretentious or too pompous whenever I talk about my own stuff, and I feel like unintentionally I’ve been like that at some point, so I try not to take myself too seriously in that regard. I guess it’s just who I am. All the stuff I’m into was very natural and accessible, like my dad was a musician, I just don’t want to sound like an elitist to a certain extent. Like every time I post something or do some art thing, I have to try to not be pretentious.
What is pretentious to you?
Just someone who feels they are of a higher culture than the next person or thinks their musical taste is better than somebody. Like they use it as a measuring stick. And I don’t feel like that at all.
So what I’m hearing is you’re not like that - you’re not pretentious - but when you express yourself, you’re afraid of coming off as pretentious?
Yeah.
I feel that.
Yeah. I’ve had people in my life who are always like “You’re a man of culture” or some sh*t and I’m just like fu*k dude (laughs). I hate it when people do that.
(Laughs) It’s true though man. Thats cool.
Yeah, but the interests I have are really genuine, it’s not because some person is seen with high regard from an art world perspective or something…
Okay, while on that, let me tell you what I wrote about your work -
Yeah for sure.
I see your work and it has a feeling of home, integrity, community, and understanding, in a way that is genuine, emotional, and deeply rooted.
Thanks, dude! (Laughs) Appreciate that!
(laughs) And I say that because if you’re worried it’s coming off a certain way, that is how it’s coming off.
I don’t think it necessarily comes off as pretentious, it’s more just a thing in the back of my head that I hope my friends or people don’t think about.
It sounds like the age-old idea of the different persona.
Yeah, whoever makes art, there’s the artist side of you, and then the side that kicks it with the homies and stuff. They’re not completely different sides, just elements of your personality.
I think we over-emphasize that only for creative people. But that translates to pretty much everything. No matter what you do in the professional world, you’re going to have to wear a certain face.
Right, there are so many people who are completely different within work and outside of work too. I feel like everybody in their own articulation is creative, it’s not limited to art, whether you are an accountant or something, you solve problems in a creative way. It’s like you said, it applies to literally everything.
What’s your connection to Buddhism? I know you visited some temples in Japan.
Firstly, I just want to say, I’m not a Buddhist, nor do I identify with a single religion. The main entry point for me to study Buddhism was actually Adam Yauch from the Beastie Boys. He was a Tibetan Buddhist, and put on a bunch of Tibetan freedom concerts back in the 90s and got lots of artists to play for free. And as I became more of a Beastie Boys fan, he said something at an awards show that really stuck out to me after 9-11. He basically said that the xenophobia and racism against brown people in America needed to stop. And he said something that was almost prophetic, that you can’t define an entire religion or race, by a few messed up people.
And from a contextual standpoint, saying something like that probably wasn’t the popular thing to do. He wasn’t necessarily pandering to anybody in my opinion, he was just saying how it was.
Like “George Bush doesn’t care about black people?” (laughs)
(Laughs) Yes, but definitely more articulate than that. And of course, it has been a recurring theme, but at the time I watched that it was during a lot of police brutality in the news, Trayvon Martin and everything, so going back to someone saying that in 2001, just made me respect him (Adam Yauch) a lot more, and knowing how serious he was about Buddhism was my entry point. Also, my uncle, who is a gardener, has a photo of the Dalai Lama in his greenhouse, and he’s really into beat poetry and Jack Kerouac, who were all into the Buddhist mantra.
What stuck out to you in your Japan experience?
Architecturally, there are temples that were built in the 1200s or 1300s which is older than this country. Purely from that it was crazy seeing the history behind all the buildings.
Right, we don’t see any of that here.
Yeah, we have a very isolated view.
Because we got rid of everything!
Exactly. What I noticed was also that the people there were much more peaceful. I think naturally in America we’re just much more loud. I didn’t hear one person scream while I was there. (laughs)
Oh and they also make really good food.
At the temple?
Yeah, I stayed at a temple but it was run by an innkeeper, and she made the best vegetarian meal I ever had in my life. She also made some homemade ice cream - it was crazy. And she was the nicest person ever. She even had a hand-drawn menu she’d drawn. It blew my mind.
I feel like we’ve lost that element of craftsmanship. Would you say that’s a reason why you put so much work into how you package things and do your collections?
Yeah. It’s funny, I’ve talked to my other friends who work in clothing, and a lot of us aren’t excited anymore just generally, about anything anybody is putting out. Everything is a commodity now, and it’s one thing to have a business to sell, but it’s another thing to make your own stuff and be like “Okay, I might sell 10 or 30 of these because its just me…” for creative peace basically.
I like that term. Creative Peace.
It’s kind of what it is. I’m sure you experience it too once you’re done with a project.
Absolutely.
When I just put my last project out, I was like I’m at creative peace right now, like I have other ideas but this was the big one. Cool I got it out, I’m chillin’ now.
I tell my friend all the time, it’s like a project falls off in my mind once it’s done. I’m not even thinking about it anymore, I’m just back to existing again.
I think part of it too is that we obsess over it for months or years on end, so as soon as you put it out, it’s a relief.
Facts, unless you have a marketing team or something, then good luck.
Maybe some people do, but personally, I’ve never been like “Okay, WHATS NEXT?” Because asking yourself that to me, is kind of a ghost term for “how do I maintain relevancy in the public eye”? I don’t ask myself that, I’m just going to make what I want. Because I’ve seen a ton of people like Keith (Hufnagel) who I worked with at HUF, told me his brand got bigger than he was, and he started another brand called Metropolitan and would make whatever he wanted with that and was happy. I think always trying to be relevant, always trying to be on the ball is the worst thing for creativity.
I agree. It’ll inevitably make you lose it, change yourself beyond recognition and measure, or you become completely corny because you’re trying so hard.
For sure.
I was just describing Tom Sachs — (laughs)
(Laughs) Bro, he’s getting canceled like crazy. It’s funny my family says the same thing. They’re like “Oh my God, I used to love Tom Sachs's work, but he’s just beating this NASA shit into the ground.”
It makes him that money though.
It does.
I heard a quote from him along the lines of “When you do a show, spend the money you make from it fast so you’re forced to go and make more art.” And I like that idea, but seeing what he had to do in order to make that happen - hearing all these stories of his employees and all the crazy sh*t… like he even lost his Nike deal man.
Yeah cuz he was waltzing around his studio butt naked. (Laughs) Who wants to see that bro! You got to come to work and see your BOSS naked??
I know you’re a big history buff. So you know they always say, “Read history in order to understand the future" etc. So where would you say we’re going right now culturally, socially, and/or politically?
I have opinions on EVERYTHING (laughs). I’ll start with socially:
I think we need to stop getting all our information from our phones. Specifically, from my regard, art and how you articulate yourself artistically, your references, and all that — I can immediately tell when someone gets their frame of reference from the internet.
So where do you suggest people look?
Bookstores. Libraries. Just pick up a random older book. You don’t have to read it in depth, and if there’s pictures in it, just look through it. Photography is very inspiring.
Photography is amazing.
Its the most under appreciated artistic form in my opinion. Photographers by and large make dirt money, but to me its the only medium that consistently captures peoples realities.
What about politically?
Politically:
This country is a sh*t show. The same thing as Adam Yauch said in 2001… Our country is funding a genocide.
Have you heard people say that this is Israel’s 9/11?
Yeah, but it’s worse.
I say that because there was this attack that was going to happen, and they let it happen so they have a reason to go bat shit.
And kill innocent civilians, and children, it’s never the people in governing power that get affected by it, just the civilians. It’s heartbreaking to see people be like, “Pro-Israel”. I’m just like well ACTUALLY if you had context of this situation…
And even before that, Netanyahu was always a P.O.S. to me. One thing would happen and he’d basically take it 20 steps further. I think generally, if you’re a governmental body, and you talk like you’re the beacon of a religion, or a beacon of hope —
That’s a big red-flag.
Exactly. There are a lot of Jewish people in my life who are obviously great people and don’t support what he is doing, but that’s what makes me sick, he’s trying to say what Israel is doing right now is representative of every Jewish person and what they believe, and its so sickening to me. Its heartbreaking to be honest.
And it’s crazy looking at their history, the trajectory, from the Holocaust, and to see what they are doing now.
Exactly… and we’re funding them! Like wtf are we doing dude. But again, its a lot of generalizing. Its crazy how you can make a mass generalization about a group of people -
Like we didn’t learn our lesson already - with Japan, Vietnam, Native Americans…
Exactly.
I think its amazing how much America is a comfortable place to live, and on top of that we believe we’re the best country in the world - no matter HOW sh*tty the government is.
“We’re the greatest country” The blind patriotism is nuts. (laughs)
It doesn’t matter how much you hate the government, you still gon’ be like, “F*ck you I’m American".
And that’s why the world hates us. (laughs) That’s why I feel generally, people should visit another country at least once in their life and just see how people are, because it’s such a big difference. That’s why I named my clothing line “World’s Fair”, because when they’d have world’s fairs they’d bring different nations to one area so while you never got the full scope of each nation, you would at least be able to research them. When you grow up in America though it’s always about U.S history or something from the 1300s —
We don’t even learn geography.
Yeah, like it’d be helpful to learn history outside of WW1 and WW2, from a contextual standpoint. Because a lot of the history they teach in school is centered around a conflict -
How’d it start, how’d we get there, how’d we get out.
Exactly. What about the people within this conflict? How were their everyday lives? I don’t know, there’s just a big lack of context.
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